What Are Their Legal Rights??

Florida Laws States that a custodial parent can not move more than 50 miles from the other "legal" non-custodial parent without consent from him! He can and should press kidnapping charges against her and then press to become legal custodial parent.

Good Luck to DAD!!!

If he is involved as you say, then I would advise the mother to get a lawyer's advice before leaving the state with the kids. It may end up getting her into legal trouble.

If he is paying child support and he is the legal father, she can only do that without repercussions if he doesn't have any problems with it. It is within his rights to bring charges and make trouble for her. (I just asked my sister the Social Worker!) This is a very delicate situation because she can be charged with kidnapping!!!

M.

my understanding of this situation - from a military lawyer - is that since his name is on the birth certificates, he has joint custody - meaning he has the same rights with the children as if they had been married.

since there are no court orders involved, she can leave the state without his consent. but i don't advise it. he has just as much right to the children as she does and he can petitition the court to make her come back with those children. Florida is a funny state when it comes to situations where children are involved - they don't relinquish jurisdiction over custody and such as just because one parent left the state.

since he is voluntarily paying child support, he has recourse with the courts. he can demand to know where she is, a phone number to call the children, a mailing address so he can send them gifts, cards, etc. he can demand to know where they go to school, who their teachers are, report cards, etc. he can demand to know who their doctor is and he has the right to access their medical records to be sure they are being cared for properly. and he can demand visitation - and the court will side with him. he is not being unreasonable with these requests. they are his children too, and for all intents and purposes, he has joint custody - which means he has a say in their up bringing and care and in making major decisions for the children - and moving out of state qualifies as a major decsion.

Florida does not take parental rights easily, so he would have a very hard time getting full custody because she has been a good mother. but he can go to court and have the children given to him as far as having residential custody.

she may be cutting of her nose to spite her face by leaving and not telling him. and i would question her motives for this action as well. if he is so generous, why would she deliberately hurt him so?

My friend went throught the same situation. As long as she has custody she can go where she wants though he can file an injunction to prohibit the move. She is however, required to TELL him that she is leaving the state. Really though the question shouldn't be if she legally can but if she morally can. Why would she want to take the boys away from their father if he pays his child support (in addition to buying her gifts) and takes care of his sons? Even if this is a finacial benefit or such why wouldn't she tell him that she's leaving? There are lots of fatherless children out there- it doesn't make any sense to actively create that situation. You might want to tell your friend to look within herself, consider her children and really think about the situation.

Laws vary by state. I suggest he get a lawyer and pray that she doesn't move to a state that hates men.

There are so many kids out there with no Dad or Dads who could care less about their kids. Here is a Dad who is actually trying to do right and she wants to just up and leave. Kids need both their parents! Its a shame that your friend does not consider the children or their father in her plans. Respect has to go both ways. Please try and talk some sense into her!

this is more of a moral issue than anything in my opinion. legal issues aside, is this the message she wants to send to her children? and it seems that he is a good man TRYING to make the best out of a bad situation. she should tell him. she should make clear the reasons for the move and assure him that he can still see his children whenever they work out arrangements (summers, holidays, etc.) i can't see why he would refuse to allow it if it really was best for the kids and your friend. any decent man would want the best for his kids even if it meant them living a little further away than before. then, if he did want to act out and not allow it, the legal issues should be dealt with. call legal aid, call for a free consultation (most law offices do this) or simply wait for him to take it to court. in most cases if he brings it to the courts and loses his case, he would have to pay her legal fees if she filed a counter claim.

The father has just as many rights to those kids as she does. if he really wanted to he could take the kids from her right now and unless there is a court order you can not kidnap your own kids. My best friend learned that the hard way. Why would she even say he has no rights if she is taking his money? Man she can really risk those kids if he really wanted to push this issue in court. My advice...at least tell him and see what he says. You never know...he might allow the move therefore having no problems.

Hello and how r u? Let my just be str8........ I am also a single mom of 3 and 2 of the fathers are not apart of their lives at all but after speaking w/ lawyers ect... if there is no court order then they BOTH have the same amount of custody regardless of what we think. If their name is on the B.C, they can go and demand their child from any school, daycare ect. I was told that w/o court papers stating that their dad can not pick them up, then I am SOL because their dad can come get them anytime they want. Is it bull.....yea BUT if she has a father on her hands that love and take care of those kids and she is trying to be nasty like that......... NC. I can not stand moms who think that they own the kids....... she better thank God that she has someone helping her PLUS it's not fair for dad or the kids. Anyways She will pay for it one day and those kids will turn and blame her. As for the father, I am sure if he catches wind that the kids are being moved out of state, he's going do something. but woman like that....... make me sick. I'm sure if he stops paying child support.... she'll have something to say.....

If he is on the birth certificate and pays court ordered child support, BY LAW she cannot take the children across state lines without his permission. There has to be a proven period of abandonment, (four years), before she can do anything of that nature without his permission. There is an agency through the state of Florida that gives free legal advice. You can find it through myflorida.com. I don't have it right handy, but if I find it, I'll forward it to you. However, you being her friend, perhaps you could reason with her that in a world where the majority of children born out of wedlock do not have a biological father in their life, that it is very important not to push them out on purpose. Unless there is an underlying reason for her not wanting him around, the best father figure for a child is someone who takes responsibility even though the state hasn't ordered him to...he was taught that what's right is right & what's wrong is wrong and you're supposed to take responsibility for your own actions. I would love if my son's biological father had been like that, however he wasn't, and through the law of abandonment, my son has been adopted by someone who is. I wish the best of luck to everyone involved and I will pray for the family.

In the state of Florida there is no law forbidden her to leave the state. However, it is a federal law that she has to notify the child's none-custodial parent before leaving the state. If he wants to, he can take this matter up in a federal court. So she had better make sure that she has all her I's dottie and t's crossed it that situation.

If he wasn't paying child support, then I would think she could do whatever she wanted since they were never married. However, since he does pay, I think she should play it safe and get permission to leave the state. Of course, I also think she should tell him. Is this really as random and sudden as it sounds? I can't believe she would be so selfish. I hope you are able to talk some sense into her. The kids derserve to have their father if he is as good to them as it sounds.

She risks losing her kids to their father by leaving the state without his knowldege or consent. It would probably be considered kidnapping (I'm no legal expert here). She would be viewed as the guilty party, especially if he is doing everything he can to be a father to these kids AND paying child support

I think that the father has legal rights, regardless of whether they ever married. I am a single mom by choice... I had my friend, a donor, sign a Termination of Parental Rights and I do not collect child support, even though he is listed on her birth certificate. In our case, he cannot ever sue me for custody or have any say in decisions that affect her, but it's all written out legally. Since she named him on the BC and has taken his money and the children know him to be the father, I think she could have major issues if she tries to take them out of the state without his permission. She needs to get advice from a lawyer, even if it's something she can't afford.

Good luck!
K.

Hello,

In this matter, It does not matter if she married him or not. He is the father of the children and he has rights just like her. If he took her to court you will see that. If the father loves his children and wants to be with them, then she has no right to be so selfish and to take the kids out of state and to keep them away from their father that I am sure that they love DADDY!

IF I WAS HIM I WOULD TAKE HER TO COURT BECAUSE SHE HAS NO BUSINESS DOING THAT.

If the father did not care at all then I would say go ahead. The children are not losing anything.
BUT THE CHILDREN NEED DADDY AND DADDY NEEDS HIS CHILDREN.

If I was him I would fight her all of the way to court.

She should be on her knees thanking the LORD that he is a good man to her and the kids.

He sounds like a great guy that really cares and loves his kids. Why in the world would she want to hurt him like that??????????????????????????????????????????????????
Why in the world would she want to hurt her kids like that??????????????????????????????????????????????????

THE CHILDREN MIGHT NOT LIKE WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN AND THEY MIGHT TAKE IT HARD AND SHE MIGHT START HAVING REAL BIG BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY LOST THEIR RIGHTS AS CHILDREN TO THEIR DADDY.

I wish everybody in this situation well.

Tell your friend that she need to think of the children FIRST and what they need and not of her own wants.

10-31-07

P.S. If she leaves state with the kids without telling him then he can call 911 and say that the mother kidnapped the children and that he can not find them and that he needs help and she might have a HUGE problem on her hands.

I don't know who you are friends with the father or mother. The father can take her to court and stop her from moving until a decision is reached. My advice is that the mother sounds selfish. SHe is putting her needs before her children. If her kids are lucky enough to have an active father in their life, one that supports them and is there for them emotional and physically then that bond is way more important then moving and what a court says. She needs to look at the whole situation not just legally. What is best for the kids not just her. When you become a mother sometimes you have to do things that you don';t want to becuase it is in the best interest of your children i.e. staying some place so they can have a relationship with their father. The impact on the children should be everyone's first concern not legal issues. Children without fathers in their lives are more likely to get into trouble, have emotional isssues and other serious problems. Please everyone stop and think about the kids not about court systems. They are the ones that are going to be hurt and devastated by this situation. I feel bad for the children and the father in this situation.

Wow, should it even matter what the legal rights are? If he is a loving, caring father, good to the kids and to her, why on Earth would she do that to him? Doesnt sound like an issue of legal rights, sounds like an issue of morals to me. If they are his kids though, and if she leaves, certainly he could go after her, may take a while in court though.

An addition to my response:
To the kind lady who says we are all clueless and who hopes our God punishes us for casting stones....what in the world??? If you read the post from the girl thats requesting information, it says the father is very generous to kids AND MOTHER, and gives no suggestion of anything BAD in the situation. We can only ASSUME since she didnt mention anything BAD that there's not terrible things about this guy. Maybe you should take to heart your comment about God, punishment and casting stones. This website is for advice and opinions, which we all gave, only to be chastised by you. Wow.

i just went through all of this with my sons dad. HIm and I were together for 5 1/2 yrs. We spilt up when my son was 2 months shy of turning 4. He and I were NEVER married. I got an attorney right away. Even though he did pay me for 8 months and get him there was NO PATERINTY established which means that the state doesnt see them as the father until that is done. B/c we hadnt gone to court I was letting him see our son b/c I didnt know how to tell brody he couldnt see his dad after knowing him for his whole life. But in all honesty she doesnt have to let him see them until they go to court. until the judge makes a decision. He sounds like a great guy though if she holds the kids from him it is only b/c she is mad or upset at him. SHE IS NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE STATE!!! I know this 1st hand. lol. IF SHE DOES HE NEEDS TO GET AN ATTORNEY ASAP! SHE CAN BE ARRESTED FOR KIDNAPPING OR WHEN THEY SERVE HER WITH THE PAPERS B/C SHE ISNT GOING THROUGH THE CORRECT STEPS AS FAR AS....MARRIAGE, EXPLAINING TO THE COURT Y IT IS IN THE KIDS BEST INTEREST FOR THEM TO MOVE TO ANOTHER STATE. IF HER FAMILY IS THERE AND NOT IN THE STATE SHE IS IN THEY MAY ALLOW IT. BUT SHE JUST CANT LEAVE. THEY CAN MAKE HER MOVE BACK. hope this helps.

The bottom line is that in the state of Florida, if a man's name is on the child's birth certificate, then he had to show ID at the hospital or have a DNA test done. If his name is on the BC then he is legally responsible for the children unless DNA can prove that he is not the father and even then it's hard to absolve him of any responsibility.

That being said, if they have no court ordered visitation and child support arrangement she pretty much can pack up and leave, especially in secret. Even if she did have court ordered visitation, she could still move. It's very difficult to establish custody across state lines and it takes a long time to do so if the state is willing to even put the effort into it. His recourse at that point would be to hire a PI to find them then an attorney in the state they are found in to handle a custody suit. This realy sucks, but unfortunately, custody laws between the states are very different and you have to abide by the laws of the state the children are in.

Assuming he becomes aware of her inpending move (ie, you tell him or convince your friend to do so) he may want to hire an attorney immediately to file an emergency petition with the court in their area to keep her from removing the children until visitation can be resolved.

Whatever your friend and her baby's daddy decide to do, they should definately take into consideration the impact their actions will have on the children. It's really sad to see the number of father absent families these days steadily on the rise and although it may be best that mom and dad aren't together, it is best to have both parents. I think there is a reason that it takes 2 people to make a baby---it takes (at least) 2 people to raise one !!!

I do think though that he should cease all gifts to her immediately. It seems like he's just wasting his money since she's plotting behind his back anyway. She should start refusing any gifts above the child support and extra child-related gifts.

I am not an attorney, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night :) My advice in this situation comes purely from a similar situation that was posed to an attorney on a radio talk show I listen to. The attorney is in the state of Florida and specializes in family law.

Good luck to your friends children. They will need it most.

I agree with the other answer.... i believe it is standard language. Even a vacation, you need his consent to take your child out of the state.

i would have her check with a lawyer most offices do free consultations or she can look it up online. i can't see taking the kids away from him if he is such a great dad. even if their relationship wasn't great if he's still good with the kids they should have access to him, he can also file for custody after she's gone altho that would be hard since she left no forwarding address for the papers to arrive but he can do it, it would get messy. anyway have her check it out. if my kids bio father was a wonderful then i'd do everything to let them see him but he wanted to play head games and called out then 6 yr old told her merry christmas i have a present for you im going away forever and your never gonna see me again then hung up on her. i never let him see them again after that but but i have sole custody thru the courts and DCF due mostly to him anyway trying to force me to get back together with him back then. he has made no effort to contact me or the kids since that day altho on his myspace website he slams me acting like im evil for not taking them to see him he has never made the effort to try to see them won't contact me even thru my friend and refuses to find a way to meet somewhere in between to pick them up. that and the last time he saw them his car broke down and instead of calling me to come get them at 10:30 pm i got a call from a mutual friend he was staying with that i needed to come get them and she was aggravated at him for not calling earlier and he had never fed them so from 11 am till 11 pm they had no food. to say the least that was the last straw, he has had no contact since then altho he could and won't use my friend to get in contact.

I believe that she does have the right to leave with the children. If the father wants legal visitation rights he has to apply for them through the court system because they were never married. If he does that he can be awarded legal visitation, in that case she would then have to file for interum custody to maintain her legal rights. I don't understand the reasoning behind her moving the children though and not telling him, if he pays support and shows a great interest in being a part of their lives, it's a mistake.

Hi J. B,

My best advice would be to seek legal counsel - Florida laws are different than laws in other states. It would in the best ineterest of her children for her to talk to an attorney. If she is receiving $1,000 a month in child support she should be able to afford an hour of attorney fees for this very important decision.

Any advice from laypersons would only be speculation unless they are well versed in the laws of this state. Also take into consideration that laws do change and unless you are an attorney or work for an attorney who deals with custody, etc. advice may not be up to date. In addition, an attorney will be able to direct your friend on other matters that she may want to discuss.

Best wishes to your friend. It was nice of you to put up this question for her.

Kindest regards,
D.

Just because they arent married and it isnt in the courts she cannot leave the state without his permission with the kids. She should be grateful he isnt a dead beat dad if he wasnt involved she would be fighting to get him to be involved. She should be ashamed of herself.

My first question would be why would she want to destroy this man like this? I had a situation similar to this happen to a young man my daughter is friends with and it destroyed him. He went through the paternity tests, etc., paid money, even had her a few days a week (baby) and then BOOM, she decides she's moving to another state and is getting married and wants the man to have no contact with the baby ever again. He still has not come out of it and it's been over a year ago. Second guessing her thinking here. Unless he's threatening or something. If he's not on the birth certificate and there's nothing in writing, as was the case in our family situation, he will have no recourse without a LOT of legal battles. I do see that his name was on the birth certificates, don't know if that changes anything or not.

Well, I only know from a similar situation of a friend. She divorced & is originally from another state. However, because the son was born in FL, & the father wishes to stay in FL, she cannot move away. They did all this through the courts though, so I don't know what would happen to her if she moved away with them & didn't even tell the dad. He could probably require her to return to FL with the boys if he goes through the courts. That's a tough situation. Oregon has similar laws too, so probably many other states do as well.

Hello J.,

Actually neither one of them has custody of the children in the laws eyes. If they were not married, But living together he has just as much legal rights as the mother has. They probably should go to court and let them decide who gets custody and take it from there. Why would she want to take her children away from the father anyway? From your comments sounds like a good dad.And she doesn't want to disrupt the childrens lives. Because in the long run it will be the children who are caught in the middle of a nasty situation.Oh also if they have his last name he is the father and has just as much say so as she has.

Hope this helps

T.

She can go to legal aid, or some type of esablishment that is very low cost or free for legal information. I am going to wager that even though there is no court order, he is an involved father, and she could be setting herself up for something not good if she just leaves without telling him. Because if he decides to fight back legally if she just jets out of town, she could have some heartache, not to mention she would have to get a lawyer then. I think she should at least tell him to avoid some serious complications in the future.

Actually, in Florida she has no right to take them out of State unless he agrees. I ran into a problem with my son's father. We weren't getting along to well for a minute and I wanted to leave the State. He thought I had already left or was on my way and he called the police. At the moment the police were at my home I arrived with my son. I had only left on errands. I spoke to the police and they informed me that if I left without his consent he has the right to file kidnapping charges on me. Basically, he has the right as we do to keep our children near us. She will have to go to the court which she can file a motion herself and ask the judge to allow her to leave and give a reason for her wanting to leave. I hope this helps.

From what i understand she has to have his written consent to take the kids out of state,especially out of the country. My sister took her daughter on vacation with my mom to canada and she had to have a written consent from her husband. If he is as involved as you say, he would probably contact the authorities if she left with thwm he didn't know where they were. Please talk her into talking this over with him. If they sit down and talk about her moving he will probably be okay with it. As long as he still gets some visitation.

A lawyer or someone who knows "lawspeak" would need to look at the custody agreement.
Does she have sole custody and sole guardianship? If so, she has complete parental rights and should be able to move with out any legal issues as long as there are not any other specifications in the custody agreement.

Although, she should also look at the ramifications of removing her children from their father--for their own well-being and security. And she should also expect the father to fight it. Custodies and guardianships can be changed, so if he is already that active in their lives, I would expect that he would want to continue this and will take his own legal actions to do so.

Legal rights aside why would she want to take them away from an involved father?

As long as there is no court order, or custody established, she is at liberty to do so, although, why on earth would she do that to her children?

He sounds like he's trying to be involved as any good father would be. Is he pycho? Is there a physical threat issue? If not, the fact is, she may cause herself more harm than good.

If he chooses to file a for custody, which he can and may do, once it's filed, those children become "property of the state". I asked my lawyer if I could move out of state, and he point blank told me no. Because there was a custody battle on the table.

She needs to double check with a lawyer. Some have free consultations. She needs to talk with someone. My ex-sister in law did that to my brother. It is viscious and mean. No matter how much you dislike someone, you made a choice long ago and fathers are play an important role in the lives of childre.
(Unless there are circumstances surrounding that illicit a flee she's being unfair.)

At the very least, tell him! It's not like he won't find out. And she can be found. I assure you anyone can be found. I found my uncle who skipped out after selling all my grandparents possions and a home worth over $300k! He fled hoping no one would find him. My hubby found him in 30 minutes!

Anger does funny things to people. Did to me. She better hope he doesn't find her after she does move. You never know what people may do, especially if you mess with their children.

If she's concerned about it to that extent, she should definately pray on it.

Check with the courts also.

Because Child support is established, he may have to agree to her moving.

It's a toss up.

Um YES he DOES HAVE RIGHTS! It depends on him, will he act on them. He could put a restraining order on her for at least one year to not leave the city/state, until there is a court hearing about custody and visitation schedules.

If he's been more than generous and has always paid the child support, then he does have a say if he wants his kids around.

The only way he would not have rights if he, himself has given them up in a signed/notarized document witnessed by a lawyer.

It is not fair of your friend to leave with their children without telling him first. I'm sure he would be devistated. You have to tell her this, or it will come back to bite her in the end. She could end up losing custoday all together for doing this. It has happened before!!!!

Because they have nothing in writting he has just as much rights as she does. He can if he really wants to file a petition with the court to force her to come back and he may because she did not tell him. He may also file for full custody which can become very costly for both sides. I recomend she call a lawyer and ask. Lots of attornys will give you some basic answers with out charging you. But my advise is be very careful.Is there a reason she does not want to tell him?

Just because he doesn't have physical custody of the children, doesn't mean that he isn't their father, he is on the birth certificate, he has accepted responsibility for the children but genorously providing child support. If she chooses to leave the state he could actually go after her for kidnapping... since there is no custody order.... how well that would hold up would probably come down to who has the better lawyer. But at that point I am sure that he would take her to court, and gain at least partial custody of them. and because she chose to leave the state with them, he can force her to pay the expenses of getting them to him during the times he gets his visitation. He is their father, he has just as much rights to them as she does. (trust me I have dealt with this with my daughter) In all actuallity if she took them and somehow he ended up coming to see them, he could wait til she left and pack them up and take them back with him and there is nothing she could do about it until they had a court date that awarded custody. Over all by the sounds of it, he can afford a lot more than her, make this decision probably isn't the best idea, and surely isn't in the best intrest of her children. It doesn't sound like the father is doing anything wrong.... in fact she is lucky that he does so much for her. Its sad that she would want to uproot her children and take them away from their father. But when it all comes down to the end, just because he isn't acting on it and is being the civil parent by just agreeing to the plan they have now doesn't mean he doesn't have rights to them. and her making a mis step could enevitably cost her custody of them. especially since they are boys..... just some food for thought.

Your friend should be very thankful that the father of her children is involved in their lives, pays childsupport and actually wants the be a part of their lives. Men like that are few and far between. If she does leave the state w/o telling him she is not taking her childrens best interest to heart. Legally he does have to go to court to get his visitation rights established and hopefully he can afford a lawyer. I'm sorry to say this about your friend but it is mothers like that who give us a bad name when it comes to these kinds of situations. He has every right just as she has, she didn't bring them into this world by herself.

His name is on the Birth Certificate and he has been paying child support and not only that but he has had regular visitation w/them. I don't know what her legal rights are, but if the father decides or figures out what she is doing or planning to do he can have an emergency hearing to have a restraining order to keep her in the state and establish visitation at that time. I don't think a judge would look to kindly at a mother who ups and leaves especially after a father has been so involved in their lives. She would be better off trying to work something out w/the father and if that is not possible then the money she was going to use to move would be better spent on a lawyer. Besides those boys appear to have a releationship w/their father. She needs to think about them.

I was in a similar situation and did actually get an attorney. She may not be able to afford an attorney but if the father can, he may take her to court if she does this. My childs father is also on the birth certificate. We were never married but had a mutual understanding until one day he decided he didn't want to pay me anymore.All my attorney had to do was get a copy of my child's birth certificate. Now, if the father states he is not the father than blood tests can be ordered by the court. Otherwise, the birth certificate is enough to establish paternity. As a father he does carry rights. No matter if it is "legal" or not. He is still entitled to visitation just if they went through a divorce. They'll establish an amount of child support based on both their incomes and can go back 2 yrs. If they had been married, there would be no limitation. Seeing that she does receive child support from him, she needs to ask herself if he would get an attorney. If he has it in him, she would be making a mistake starting anything because she would be the one to lose in the end. She would have to get an attorney that she could not afford and would not win her case. She, ultamitely would be stupid for doing anything.
Hope this helps.

I would encourage you friend not to do this, unless she can prove he's abusive to her and those children. She'd still want to consult an attorney.
If the father is as good to them as you described she's only going to hurt those children by taking them away from him.
Besides, the children will be angry with her for a long time if she takes them away from seeing him when there is no reason to.
Even if they came to some verbal agreement, she'd need some legal documentation to prevent him from filing charges to take them away from her.
Good luck.

i hope that you've left out some details in your explanation, cuz it sounds pretty outrageous that a father is doing all the right things and she wants to cut him out of their lives. if that's the case, i hope she doesn't disappear on him w/ the kids.